E12: A women first professional networking platform | Ragini Das, Co-founder at leap.club

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In the twelfth episode of Insider Investing, we welcome Ragini Das, Co-founder at leap.club. We decode the nitty gritties of leap's business model, challenges faced while building leap, the growth trajectory for the community driven startup, and more recent initiatives like the Table and other insights behind the success of this women only professional network.

In the exciting episode, we dig deeper into various topics like how leap.club is unique as a startup idea, with its core focus on building professional networking platform and community for women; the importance of maintaining workplace diversity, experiences fundraising and building leap, the need for conversations around mental health, what keeps Ragini up all night and many other interesting insights.

Epiosde Timestamps:

00:00 - 01:33 : Introduction

01:34 - 04:27 : Building leap.club after leaving Zomato

04:28 - 09:43 : Starting a socially responsible startup

09:44 -13:04 : Pitching business to VCs

13:05 -17:33 : Motivating community for recurring payments

17:34 - 22:00 : Building value for the leap.club community

22:01 - 22:57 : Problems faced by a startup founder

22:58 - 27:54 : Maintaining workplace diversity in companies

27:55 - 32:32 : Building the Table, an early stage fund for women-led startups

32:33 - 36:44 : What's next for leap.club

Episode Transcript

On the 12th episode of insider investing, I'm hosting Ragaini who's the co-founder of leap.club, which is on a mission to shatter the glass ceiling. In this episode, we covered a lot of ground. We talk about her motivations of starting up, building a community, getting members in India to pay and the concept of the table, which I'm personally super excited about.


Hey, Ragini, welcome to Insider investing. It's incredible as the first time they are meeting. And, you know, this is a big disclaimer right up front that I'm an investor in Leap.club and so everything that you hear on this podcast will be biased. So please bear with us on that.

Ragini: This is how we like the world.


You know what actually, I heard this saying once that if there is no conflict, there is no interest. Right. So it's always always good to have some overlaps, and get stuff going. Ragini, it's been incredible watching the journey of leap.club from the sidelines. By the way, congratulations for the golden kitty.

I saw you with Sahil from Bloom Ventures, you know, all of the people that we really admire on one screen, it was like, incredible. Congratulations on that. And I think that's a great point to start with about the journey of Leap.club. How did it happen? You were this super performer at Zomato. You decided to throw it all away and start afresh? Why would somebody do that?


I keep asking myself that. But Jokes apart. I think Sandeep, I love Zomato. I do. I think it's universal truth, gospel truth. In my head, I think I only became a founder in 2020. Yes, but the startup bug, in some sense, bid me very, very early back in 2013, which is, of course, when I joined this food tech startup. So I feel the early exposure. Talking about culture day in and day out seeing the hustle How much ever people hate the word today, building teams ground up managing teams when you were like literally 24-25, right? Like, not a lot of people can boast about that. So I feel the entire zero to one journey. Got me very, very excited. And I saw that very, very early in my career. I also knew that for someone like me who is extremely impatient, startups are probably the thing, and I'm not going to be happy in your typical nine to five setup. It's not the kind of work I enjoy. It's not the kind of people I enjoy working with. Also, I just need that energy. I need that enthusiasm. And like I said, You can hate on the word, but I need that hustle in my life. For however long I can have it at least. So yeah, I enjoyed working at Zomato quite a bit. I worked across geographies, I worked across products, learned from some of the sharpest brains, I would say in the business for the six years that I was there. And the idea of starting up was not even close to, you know, like this thing in my vicinity, right? 

In fact, in a very, very early 2018 is when I started working with Anand, this was his second stint as my co-founder, of course, and he joined moto again. After his little startup experience. And we used to work together. We used to talk about how the world just needs to solve real problems. And one of them happened to be how broken professional networking was. So yeah, I think for me, it was a step by step process. I did not grow up like I did not like as a kid. Go, I'm going to become a founder. I'll be honest, five years ago, I didn't even think I was close to it. So yeah, it was it was just the right place, right time, the dots and the timings, everything matched. I also feel I was at a stage in my career life where I could take that. I don't want to say there is a risk. But I could take that leap of faith or that plunge, even financially based experience, it all made sense. And that's how the leap in some sense came together for me. So it threw it all away. But hopefully no regrets.


Sure, no regrets. Because startup is really a state of mind for you. Even if you're working for a large company, there are people who think like they should in a startup and they think like founders and they own every problem. They want to solve it. They hustle like you said, but there are so many ways to direct that energy, right? I mean, even in starting up a new company, you could have started up a purely commercial outfit, right and, you know, focused on solving business problems. Here, you're at the intersection of what is potentially a social issue. You spoke about professional networking, and that's great, but really to me, leap is solving for a social challenge that we're facing, which is not enough people, not enough women in the workforce, not enough sort of diversity of thought. So why just this and why not like potentially many other things that you could have done?


Yeah, no, and then I keep joking how Hawkins at the end of the day is making the maximum money and having the last laugh and sometimes we just wish that oh my god, you know, I think why don't we have that. But jokes apart? I think let me just call out. For everyone listening, what leap essentially is right? We're a community led professional network for women, with, like you said, with a very bold mission, it's to see more women in leadership positions. I'll be honest, while our mission has stayed consistent over the last two years, there have been lots of learnings and we've come to answers, we've come to what we essentially are. All of it has been a journey, in some sense, right? We started to leap with the idea of how professional networking, like I said, was extremely broken. And this was very gender agnostic, industry, gender, everything agnostic, we spoke to almost 300-400 people, we asked them what they do for their professional growth, what is it that they need. And Sunday, the way women spoke about it was a lot more hard hitting than men. Beyond the stats that we all know about, I think the lack of a solid network, the lack of proper tools to learn to grow, the lack of a community that has your back, access to executive coaching, you know, I think all of these things just came out, came out as such huge blockers. And again, the way they spoke about it, and like I could feel it right, like, and I saw that like even a Zomato, I'll be honest, of course, with the broken rung, like when you join, there are lots of people. But as you keep growing, even at an inclusive company, I saw the lack of many, many female role models, right, or female mentors. So I think, almost 300-400 conversations later, I think we were more than convinced that leap is needed in the world. We also understood this word maker, Tam considerably smaller, it will also make our fundraising journey much, much harder. But at the end of the day, I think we were convinced we're solving a real problem, it will hopefully, stand us in good stead. And looking back it did. Today, we hope for leap to be the preferred professional network for women globally. We want to be a profitable company, we want to be an impactful company. And we want to influence three very key aspects in a woman's professional life. One, which was what we do today is connections and network, which is why our community built a very, very solid network for women. The second is access to jobs and opportunities. And the third is constant learning and development. Why are of course the right tools? We also understand and we've learned, in fact, I'd like to say over the last two years, that leap is not a it's not a one year course, right? It's not a school, or it's not a program that you do for x months, or x years or so on. So it's a lifelong process, right? So we have someone who's three years in Bain, someone else who's 25 years, MD at landour. We have a founder, we have a budding founder, we have freelancers, we have journalists, we have real women and real estate, like hardly any women there. Today, I think we're very, very focused on connections, both personal and professional. The personal angle, I'll be honest, has grown over the last eight, nine months. And that's also been another learning. But essentially, we're not a transactional platform, we don't optimize for likes, or shares or commenting for reaches, right. I think this is a community. And of course, the community team does a very good job at it. But it's a community that we nurture, with every single conversation. It's a safe space. And I feel that's what kind of sets us apart. We also mentioned to sourav this, right, like we made a very bold decision of going community first. Today, lots of companies build a product, and then they want to kind of build a community around it. But for us, our moat is our community members. Trust us, we have the best talent, we have the sharks and the wheels, and there's so much we can do with them.


So, Ragini, let's peel that onion because there's a lot of things that you touched upon in that thing. Let me first and you know, a lot of founders listen to this podcast, this whole thing of fundraising for what is potentially on paper a very small time, right. So how does one approach that conversation with the VC? Because here you are, and your passion shines through even this zoom call, but how do you convince a VC they look there is a market here that there is and while your passion and all of that is important, how does it translate for them in terms of returns? So that is one question. I'll talk about the angle that you've taken towards your product journey in just a bit but how was the fundraising experience for you?


Blood, sweat, tears, I will be really honest right, I think looking back, I think two years ago, it used to really bother me. If I'm being very honest, I was like, why do people not see it? Because everyone loves the mission, they all want us to come and talk to their employees and other people and connect us to people, etc. But not everyone gets it, right. A part of me also feels not everyone gets it because they don't understand the problem. Because the room I'm pitching to, there are no women. So I feel not like you need to understand all the problems, but I feel they don't understand that bit of it. I also have learned over the last couple of months, I would say, we need patient capitals sandeep, right? We were not a company that's going to give you hockey stick growth. And if that's what you're looking for, we're not the right company for you to invest in, right. Over the last two years, we've had angel, venture capitals, in fact, our lead investor was a member first. And then she went and investor, right, like that's, that's when Namita went and led the round, right? And I feel intruded, and we're using style apna time aayega. And I think you've just got to believe that it's going to happen, and it's going to happen at the right time. Man, it's very easy to get very demotivated when you see people raising 1 - 5 million like crazy valuations. But it's important to understand that you believe in your product, you're trusting your product. Of course, you're changing parts to make your product better. But at the end of the day, you're working with people who understand what you're building, and aren't after it just because it's hot in the market right now or so on and so forth. Right? So I feel you find the right people, and you just got to be patient and continue building. The I think what really made our lives easier was that leap is a revenue first company, right? 90% of our fundraising is still in the bank. In fact, we're just starting to dip our feet because both Anand and I are very frugal founders. But today, I think we're closer to product market fit. So we're like, Okay, now we need to spend on growth. But we've always been revenue first. People always let that kind of help us grow. So it's been slightly easier. But is it easy? It's not easy. It is explaining why this is needed in the world beyond the stats easily. Also, it's not, so yea.


One of the one of the demigods in VC is Marc Andreessen of Andreessen Horowitz. Yeah. I think it was a day before yesterday that, you know, VCs want to invest for the long term in things that are hot today, right? Like you have to be in today, like in with it. So I think, and I can imagine how hard this would have been. But it's incredible. The revenue first thing also is like something very distinctive and unique about leap.club. Today, we are in a time when it's all about growth you build, and then you figure out revenue models later. And that's the conventional venture backed model, right? Where do you lead with revenue? First, you have 1000s of members who are paying you a fee every month, every year? What is it that motivates them to do this on a consistent basis? And what do you worry about? Like, what is it that it takes to them to continue renewing their fee? And what do you think about that?


Yeah, no, no, I think you're right, I think we've completely gone a different way here also, like not just at TG, but even our approach is very different from your conventional ones. So it is quite unique, but I also feel that's what sets us apart, and to and sets us up for success is what I'd like to believe right? Now. Imagine pitching to someone you're pitching a network, first of all, and you're pitching to someone and you're saying you're the first member, and you have to pay me 30,000 rupees, and I'm no Ankur Warikoo. I'm not Kunal Shah, it's not like I'm gonna do this and I'm building a company right so Yeah, and like full kudos to everyone who paid this girl who's driving around Delhi asking people for 30,000 rupees to believe in her and Anand's of course dream back then because there was no product so, I think the first question I think I also got was who else is there and then you kind of run into the chicken and egg problem so we went benefits first. It was tough it was Blood Sweat Tears like I said, I think we were also building when we were starting up. I was like I said I was selling the membership myself driving around Delhi NCR because we were also going city wise first. But then I also consciously decided not to go to friends and family for the first entire year. In fact, everyone I know and everyone within my at least in our second degree circle only ended up or unfortunately got a chance to become a member in the second year when we were 100% confident about what we're building and what leap does, etc. Because we didn't Want any sort of, you know, wrong signals, signals, biases, all of that. And it does happen, right, like everyone wants to cheer you on. And very importantly, we decided not to press the pedal for the first 12 to 18 months till today we speak to every single member before onboarding. It sounds crazy. It's needed, and it's what sets us apart. And also, I think, even till today, Sandeep, I'd like to believe we're in a discovery stage. Because of these calls, because of the community team or the sales team talking, we have a use to the ground, we've been able to pivot it multiple times, even in the last two years. So sure, it might take us a couple of extra years to get there. But as long as we're building, right, I think that works in terms of Indians, and everyone who is willing to pay is not willing to pay, we all know, if you ask someone how much you want to pay, the answer is zero. No one wants to pay anything. But I genuinely feel if you're building a product that's needed in the world, if you're solving a real problem for the person, not just for the world, there is demand for more and just being hot in the market. And all these things can only make you buy the product once it does not make you renew, and I feel our renewal numbers are very strong. The metrics are very strong. The Dows are very, very strong, and the fact that it's paid, and we have 6000 Women who pay us month on month goes to show that there is merit. And of course, like I said, the membership has looked very different from when we started to what it is today. But as long as we're taking the right steps, we're taking the right feedback, the ball eventually caters to this demand, and of course, delivers that value. So so yeah.


So Ragini, if you think about it, like you said, you started with a community and the biggest challenge with the community is the cold start problem, right? How do you get the initial group of people and get them to start engaging with each other? And then you're saying you'll build a product after that? Yeah. What is it that really takes for, like these motivated women to start engaging with each other? Because I think you really derive value from a community only when there are conversations happening. And there is some positive take away from those conversations. Like, it's just not it's not just any random group of friends getting together, what is the value that you derive out of it? And that is the one big challenge that I see with most communities is that there is no value derived out of that conversation. Right? It is just because you're in a similar mind space that you are just only for that one hangout together, you absolutely have to have some tangible takeaway. What is the tangible takeaway? And what did you think about that?


So I think for us, like I said, sandeep, we went` benefits first, right? So even when we started, we were giving them a value for the 30,000 rupees, right? Whether that was therapy sessions, whether there was access to group coaching, whether there were master classes, so on and so forth. And of course, while the product has evolved and completely changed. Today, leap bears no cost. So everything we make is direct profit. In some sense. Earlier, we were spending this money on either paying the coaches or therapists so on and so forth. When we started, we didn't start leap saying that we want to build a community. We said, this is our mission. We have so and so benefits. Let's see what happens. We got members in Delhi, we got members in Bombay, we got members in Bangalore. And well, this time, we thought the world will go back to normal. And the world didn't unfortunately, right. And which is why we will like flood gates, there are people sitting in Jaipur in London and Calcutta in Dubai in Singapore today. And all of them are members, right? So I think for us, the community just came together, even the social angle, which is what I was talking about earlier, right? Earlier, we used to talk. We used to think that people only want to know, okay, how do I crack this interview? Or how do I do this? Or how do I prepare for this project? And we see a lot of that happen even today. But a lot of like, I went hiking with a bunch of people on Google a couple of weeks back. People are traveling together, there are podcast buddies, there are people who are getting gin and wine together. So I think a lot of social angles are also coming out. So the fact that it's number one professional as well as social, but most importantly, apart from the fact that, you know, of course, these are all women, this is a very common mission tying them together. Right? Usually when you build a community, which is any of the you know, cohort based courses or anyone else who wants to build a community, it's random. There is no thought process that's kind of put behind it. The fact that we filter everyone who gets in, of course the fact that it's paid, which also makes it much much easier, it makes them take the leap a lot more seriously. I'd like to think, and the fact that it's a very giving platform at the end of the day, small, small things like I can share my phone number and not be creeped out, right, I can talk about my inhibitions, like I have a founders clubhouse. And in all honesty, we talk about how mental health for founders has become such an important aspect because half the time we're dealing with our employees' mental health right now, these are things you can't just put out on social media or talk about in a WhatsApp group, there are people discussing their dating lives. Right? Now, these are such trusted conversations, they're spoken about in such a safe space, we take a very, very conscious decision of not breaking that trust and doing whatever it takes to ensure leap continues to be your safe space. And like I said, I think even professionally, I want to interview here, I want to look for a co-founder, I want to raise farms, I want to do so on and so forth. And we made an entire website out of the impact leap has made in people's lives. It's called love.leap.club. You should check it out if you haven't already. And, and yeah, I think that just goes to show that again, we're on the right path, but I feel what sets our community apart. In one word is, well, of course, apart from the fact that it's all women where there's a common mission that binds everyone together.


You know, you brought up this, and you touched raw nerve with this founder's mental health issue. And let's talk about that. I think, you know, one thing that, like, I wouldn't say worries, but it's like you like suddenly the 1000s of people investing with dezerv? And then similarly, you have these many 1000 Women who are members, etc. What is it that freaks you out earlier? Like, oh, shit, like a will? Like, what? What are the problems that Ragini thinks about and loses sleep over?


So fun fact, Ragini hardly gets any sleep because of the 5am club, so regardless of what time she sleeps, she's up at 5am. So sleep is a problem I'm trying to solve. But I think what really keeps me up at night, right? I think, more than more than the company, I feel there are lots of people and being very honest and transparent, right? I think there are lots of people in the team. We've tripled. In the last two months, we've gone from 10-15 people to almost 50 people. And a lot of them have taken that leap of faith. I would like to think of me and Anand more than the company because we're still very, very zero to one in comparison. So it's just about how do you keep working hard? How do you not let them down? How do you ensure they're growing? They're learning. So I feel for me more than memberships more than this. And of course, like, I think those are problems. I help them solve, and I solve them. But I think something that just keeps me up at night is how do you create that rock solid culture, the hustle and all of that, but yet take care of your people? Which for me, I feel I was lucky that Zomato did that with Anand and I, which is why I think we're also trying to not give back but it's a part of us, right? So how do you kind of do that? And of course, all the business metrics and all that also keeps me up at night.


That business metrics show but for me, the moment I worry is the moment I enter the office and see so many people, oh, to wait a minute, what just happened? Like how do we win like this small company thing, this idea of a few months back, and suddenly there are all of these people. But you know, for us one of the interesting things is that when I was reflecting back on it in the first three months, we had more women in the company than men. And when one of the girls who joined us and we were talking about how that happened. And the fact is that we never ended up thinking about it. Like it, just the thought didn't cross our mind that we need to do this. It's about the talent that you got, and you ended up hiring them. What do companies think about this whole diversity issue? Because I know it's tragic that it's 2022. And we still have to talk about it. But like, is there a framework? Is there a way that people should approach this diversity conversation? Suhail, who heads talent for us has been also pushing me to bring it in in a more formal way. But how do you advise companies and given that you're on the other side, where you can actually bring a lot of talent to companies? How should we be thinking about, like diversifying the thought process within a company?


So I think the first thing would be and of course, this conversation comes up a lot we have we have a women in the workplace clubhouse within leap also, which has more than I think 700 board members and they talk about it a lot because most of them are DNI champs in their organization, so on and so forth. Right, or founders, etc. So I think the first thing is just to not make a checklist First. Right, exactly. And just going back to your point, I think in your first three months, you didn't even realize you ended up hiring more women, because it wasn't a mandate. It wasn't a checklist, right? Because that's when things start to break. Even today, we have lots of companies who reach out to us and it's everyone's, I think KPI, KRE, every CEO wants more women in, you know, of course, not just leadership, but within the organization, etc. But I don't feel I don't think, as is my personal opinion, I don't think this happens if you start to make it a mandate, start to make it oh, we need to hire X percent or X number, so on and so forth. It just organically needs to happen. Another very cool thing that I heard someone did, or someone used to do back in the day was, I don't remember the company Exactly. But this HR head was a man. He ensured you can't see the person's name on the resume. Right? A lot of biases also creep in between 35-40 years old, could have a child, could not have a child, can you do a sales job, so on and so forth? Right. I remember when we were fundraising, someone asked me what my long term plans were. I don't know what that even means. But you know what I'm saying. So I feel a lot of biases, regardless of how forward you are, in some sense. These are small, small things that one can do, but also not now mandate a workshop or do this and do that be more open? I think like even period policies even, you know, creche facilities, and I understand not every startup and not every company can afford that. And I completely get it, right sitting on the other end of this thing. But I think the ones that can should maternity, paternity leaves, I think these are just basics. I'd like to think even with a hybrid, I think the best thing that's come out of the pandemic, has been this entire hybrid culture where you're giving someone the flexibility to, of course, come into office and stay sane, because God knows we all need it. But also, how can I still be able to manage things at home? If I don't have secondary caregivers, so to speak?


Yeah. So I completely agree, I think the bigger thing is that if there is fundamental buy-in in the fact that diversity is good for the company, right? And when I say good for the company, not just to like having a check box or just to be socially relevant, etc. But for the fact that it brings new thoughts, new opinions, new perspectives, which otherwise I would have missed. And that helps us really be able to engage the market better, probably evolve the product better. And there's so many times when some of the perspectives that I would have missed come from somebody with a very different background than what I've had. Right. Yes. That's very interesting. And I think that brings me to the final part of and which I'm personally really excited about is this whole effort of creating diversity when it comes to founders. There are so many exciting ideas being funded in India, and not enough of them are backed by women. So the Table, which is an exciting concept, talks more about that. And what got you thinking about that?


Yeah, no, I think we've been thinking about it for the last year, if I'm being very honest, it's something that's two things that have always been in the back of our heads, right. One is, of course, this and we'll talk about that more. The second that I'm yet to crack and I really want to crack is a leap for freshers right people in colleges, because I know that's not just a massive market. But that's a real real problem. We'll get to that someday, hopefully, inshallah. But for now, I think in terms of, I think, just the table to give you some context. So Women's Day was coming. And like the rest of the world. I think everyone was bombarding us with collab requests. And let's do this and come and talk here, so on and so forth. I think since we're such a mission driven company, and a very mission driven team as well, we didn't want to do something that just looks good on Instagram or LinkedIn or Twitter for one day and does not make any real impact. We want to focus on creating real output real outcomes, even if that means there is a considerable amount of input that has to kind of go into it. Over the last two years, I was talking about the founders club house that we have internally at leap. We have more than 1000 founders, Sandeep, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. We realize that there's so much funding, there's so much chatter happening about the lack of a lack of tools, all of that on the platform. Of course, lots of these founders reach out to the investors on our platform, right? Or vice versa. There are lots of these investors who I also want to back female founders because of course, they're all women. Everyone wants to do that. And our point was, how do we kind of have both the marketplaces technically, how do we make this a little bit more streamlined. And that was the idea at the outset. I think everyone, even for us, has started investing in this asset class. Of course, the Bull Run also has helped in the last few years, everyone wants to explore, everyone wants to invest. In fact, fun fact, when we were raising our last round, we tweeted, and we got 15 of our members to invest. Right, so we realize there is juice there. Again, like I said, it has to be streamlined. So that's how we launched the Table via AngelList. So what table is essentially it's, it's a platform where we connect founders with potential investors. Of course, we're focusing only on women founders. It's very obvious less than 2% of women in India get funded. And we definitely want to change that. When we launched, I think, initially, the first two days, we got 50 Plus responses. We've already shortlisted, the first one that's going live, will live on the 20th of April. And you will, of course, be the first to know since you're also backing the syndicate. In fact, the founders are great, running their own show in Calcutta, going all in with personal savings, putting in all the hard work, they have the drive, they have the hunger, right, and, and we just want these stories to come out more, even for I'll be honest, for founders, like Anand and I, who've comparatively been in the ecosystem for a little bit, it was relatively easy for us. But we know it's not easy at all. It's extremely, extremely daunting.


No, I, it is even for men who, who don't, we're not in the ecosystem. We don't know whom to reach out to etc. And here you're talking about women who inherently like the biases built against them there but what I didn't realize is that you already have like a thousand founders in that sense, the supply side is already getting built.

Right. And I'm sure there's enough demand because there are a lot of people who are looking to diversify in every way, including their investments and would want to back new perspectives with them. What is the next big thing for leap.club? Like where do you see this going? Is it a number of members that you're tracking for?

Is it some value that you want to deliver? Where do you see March 23? And I'm not asking this as an investor, but do you see leap.club in one year from now?


You would get the Investor's update - Super excited? I was like, yeah, that's one investment. That's what. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think where we're very were the first standard kids who want to send the homework on time and all of that, so proper that way, but I think lots and yes, including the offsite photo. I think we've set ourselves a, um, great 2024 benchmark of a 100cr revenue. We want to be a hundred people or company, overall lots, lots happening in terms of impact. I think this is something that is the in day out. We don't quantify it. I think these are very qualitative things. We see it happen. We of course learn from our mistakes. We rectify them.

All of that also happens, in terms of memberships. Next two years, the other hundred are a hundred care members on the platform. That's what we're gunning towards. We definitely want to kickstart L and D. We've in fact started working on it as we speak at my next meeting. Is that right? So we'll double down on courses.

Cohort-based courses will, potentially, dabble with a lot of them. I think the fact that you get to learn with a very solid peer network of women that we have, we've done a few experiments over the last one year. I think it's time to scale that, jobs are not coming in the next year, but I think jobs are going to be massive for us.

Like I said, we're sitting with all the whales, all the sharks, all the companies want to hire from Leap.club. I think we're going to have a B2B platform very, very soon. We'll have a proper recruiter log-in over the next five years. I genuinely think leap can be a game changer for a product today. It's all via connections, network, community, and all of that. And I think our goal is to preserve this. And yet expand and magnify and blow it up and make a real difference. No leap is already a cracker of a concept. I'm sure it will be a cracker of a business and no pressure, but you should know that everyone outside is cheering for you and Anand at leap.

I don't know if anyone can say a leap is not needed in this world. I don't want to leave with the fact that we need a lot more leaps to come in. A lot of people message me saying, these guys are also doing this. These people are also doing this great proof of concept. I think the world needs hundreds of leaps to come together. Otherwise there is no change happening. I don't think we can do it alone. 

No, I'm sure. And maybe out of the team of leap, new leaps will evolve. 

Yeah. I mean, we've made two founders out of our existing people.

Well, that's incredible. Thank you so much, Ragini. This was an amazing conversation. We really enjoyed it and I look forward to hearing new stuff.

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